Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. I don't have that other stuff yet. It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Your link has been automatically embedded. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! I followed a similar strategy. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. Planes in Space. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. Let me. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage Your previous content has been restored. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Proceed with caution. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). You need to do it with what you've got. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). Even up there the plane acts squirrely. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Anyway thanks in advance. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. What altitude and speed should I go? So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." 3.) I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. Very cool. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Even if the air is thin, you can still put out plenty of power if you are shoving enough in with raw speed. It will be expensive and time consuming. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Powered by Invision Community. Upload or insert images from URL. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. edited 6 yr. ago. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. It was meant for low altitude flight. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. Don't worry about Isp. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. i recently used a single whiplash plane and was able to maintain a stable 21-22k meter altitude. Main goals: Auto-trimming. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The benefits should be obvious. For more information, please see our Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Thats my problem right now. Powered by Invision Community. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Really. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. even stranger is that the surface is textured. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. But maybe your patience? Welcome to the forums, ZDW. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. principle. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Cheers again fellas. How can I make money in the new career mode? I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Here's my example of dealing with the situation. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? Paste as plain text instead, Your previous content has been restored. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. You can post now and register later. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. This works, but it's not optimal. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. But. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Clear editor. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. Have you checked out the wiki yet? Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Paste as plain text instead, Valve Corporation. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. Thanks. This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. You cannot paste images directly. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. - Insane TWR didn't help. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. You could try combining the two. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. Display as a link instead, Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Why that? You can post now and register later. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Upload or insert images from URL. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Welcome to the forums. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Display as a link instead, rev2023.3.3.43278. This thread is quite old. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. surface of jool. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Information Changelog Stats Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Highest and fastest possible is best. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude.
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