You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. 3. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. FREE Returns . Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. Working well so far. Thanks. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. In compliance with California's . Make sure that the drain hose will empty the scaling solution into the bucket. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. Ensure you mount the pump securely. Next, clean the dirt-trap. Start by removing it from the heater so you can clean it properly. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Hi Christopher, not really. 6\" Magnetic Nut setter Set 48-22-6330 Tongue and Groove Pliers Set Hero 8 Black Action Camera with Accessory Bundle Pro Pac Tech XL Tool Bag Bundle H2R LED Headlamp, 2300 Lumens Rechargeable Flashlight AMP-320 Clamp Meter 117 Electricians True RMS Multimeter 2364-20 M12 Rover Rocket light 2132-20 #MIHeatingGuy #MichiganHeatingGuy Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! This serves two functions: You save water. However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. Open the pressure relief valve. When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. Water heaters think about water in temperature: If the inlet water temperature is 40F and the guy at the kitchen sink doesnt want his hands to freeze, I need to warm that water up to 55F. You just have to set the timer as you use it. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. $44.90. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. So, there is such a thing. Does It Save Money? Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? If yes, clean them. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to and affiliated sites. Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Here is the list of all the parts you need to install a recirculation pump. . I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. It usually occurs due to an open or shorted sensor. rev2023.3.3.43278. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). If necessary, replace them all. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valves, for the heater to turn on when a cold water faucet is turn on? How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. Do you want to know the details? There are no error codes showing. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. I recommend you disassemble the recirculation pump from the unit and inspect it carefully for foreign materials. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. . Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. SEER = (1 EER100% + 42 EER75% + 45 EER50% + 12 EER25%)/100, Total Heat (BTU/hr.) Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? Only 19 left in stock - order soon. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. Both of those spots are problematic though., Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. (std. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. Remove the front cover of the water heater. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. However, this is only a temporary fix. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. Take care! I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. A loose part causing unnecessary vibrations, Vacuum in the water lines causing vibrations, A dirty flow sensor leading to gas flow interference and producing weird noises. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. toby sutton wife of frank sutton how to turn on navien recirculation pump If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. I broke down all the possible reasons that cause your Navien Recirculation Pump to produce a humming noise. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Thats all for today. Thats why turning off your pump is important when youre not using it. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? Manage Settings Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. So, keep reading till the end. Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. Navien Flow Sensor. You can also identify and fix them yourself. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. The DIP switch setting has some problems. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. last week. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. Make sure there are no loose connections. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. Some brands/models dont include it. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Power Waste What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Hello Lucy, in most cases, you have that option. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. Where did you find that info? All done in software. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. 1. $197.08 $ 197. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Then what are we waiting for? I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory. As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. We trusted him and thought everything was just fine as we were getting hot water throughout the house. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. Hello Irving, Trutankless is an Arizona-based brand of tankless water heaters with built-in recirculation pumps. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions], 02. And thats a wrap! Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. Those are quite significant savings. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. Use your pump when you want to use it. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. JavaScript is disabled. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. You can contact a plumber if necessary. What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on.